Nieves Matthews - Interview
Prabhu Praveeta: Osho said yesterday "If I go and you′re not ready, I′ll send you to other
Masters". To me that was the promise of promises!
Well, I was sent to him by an enlightened man, because since my childhood I have always been around enlightened people; I had that great fortune.
My mother was very close to the man who first brought Sufism to the west in our century - Hazrat Inayat Khan. I didn′t know him, but as a
child of eight I was given my first Sufi name ′Hayat′ by him. It means ′life′, and my daughter wrote to me when she heard
I was now called Prabhu Praveeta [meaning ′pregnant with God′], "That′s just a continuation - being pregnant with God."
Inayat gave me my first name, and my whole childhood and adolescence was under the wing of this form of Sufism which came to the West.
Maneesha: Where you living in England at this time?
Prabhu Praveeta: Oh! Don′t ask me! I was living all over the place. I lived in Geneva - working for
18 years with the United Nations ′FAO′, being responsible for the Latin American side of grants and fellowships to people from
different underdeveloped countries - in England, in Spain, in France. Then after the war was over I went to Mexico and then travelled in South
America.
Finally I went to Italy and there I′ve lived the longest period of my life.
But to come back to him... ′Murshid′ we called him, which is like ′Osho′. The extra ordinary thing is that he has an
actual physical likeness to Osho. Osho talked yesterday about seeing other masters in his eyes. It′s not only the eyes that are the same -
even the faces are alike, so the identification is quite complete.
The first problem I remember quite vividly was when I was fourteen, it was my first metaphysical doubt. I began to feel, "Oh, my God! What
if it weren′t all true and if God didn′t exist?" I asked to see Murshid Ali Khan, who was the cousin of Inayat Khan, and he was
sitting there in this rather lovely room. This was in Geneva where the Sufis have their international headquarters. He read one′s thoughts
so one didn′t need to say anything. Before I had even touched on the subject, he said, "Hello! How are you?" and sat me down.
He was very, very fat, simply rolling in fat, rather dark, very good-tempered and always full of jokes. He said, "You see, there are some
people who think that God does not exist! Ha ha ha ha ha ha!" And he went off into laughter, rolling and rolling! That cured me for life
and I never had a doubt after that-because of the way he said that.
Then my own particular teacher died and the movement carried on with a younger man. The teacher who is with us now is very young and there is
missing a central element - the heartbeat of the really enlightened, so I′ve been put off by some things.
When I read the first book of Osho which came to me, as so often happens, quite out of the blue, I had only to read a few lines and I knew that
this was it. To me, his is the voice of my teacher only rendered more - many things Inayat spoke of in a half veiled way that this was the same
voice speaking for a new age and saying a whole lot of new things as well.
Maneesha: Do you find the way Osho speaks particularly appealing because of the poetry?
Prabhu Praveeta: I love it! Yes, it is pure poetry - especially towards the end of each discourse. He′s such a genius at expressing himself... just unbelievable! It is partly inspiration I suppose, and partly his mind, but he is able to just gather all the threads up one after another at the end of the lecture, but in the most poetic way so that each word falls into rhythm. Everything is just like one poem.
Maneesha: What were your first impressions on coming to the ashram?
Prabhu Praveeta: Well, about the first Darshan and the first meeting with Osho I almost can′t talk
because one is so moved and it goes so deep. Then came the counter-shock of the groups! Even though I wasn′t put into some of the more
violent ones, I did see that... And Osho touched on that today... I see that some of his group leaders are transparent and let Osho through, and
others are just sticks brandished at you... And I got in the stick first (the Enlightenment Intensive)! So I had a bit of a shock; then I got
over that and realised that it was a very important thing to have been through.
After that group I did centring. I was really touched because Prasad (the leader) seems to me to be really a glass through which a lot comes,
and of course I enjoyed much of it. Then I did the to hypnotherapy groups, and that was to me the great revelation. Santosh does seem to be one
of the ways, the instruments, through which Osho comes. I could ask him many things and feel that it was Osho′s voice answering.
Maneesha: Can you say a little more about that, because for someone who is not a sannyasin that must sound rather extraordinary!
Prabhu Praveeta: Well, for one thing the hypnosis he uses is quite different from hypnosis as it′s practiced outside. Instead of putting asleep and putting suggestions in, he puts you to sleep and keeps you awake at the same time. It′s quite masterly; He does it with a magician′s touch. He trains one very gradually so that you relax your body more and more until there comes a moment when you literally think your body has disappeared. I felt as if my body had been rolled into the mattress and there was only the mattress left! At the same time he says "And keep your consciousness aware so that you are always listening to my voice". At the beginning it′s that; later on it′s only pure awareness. So it really becomes an opening for meditation. It can calm and quiet all your doubt and then you can go into meditation more quickly.
It was all very loving. Santosh managed to create and spread among as a very loving theme from each to all and so you came out of it really very purified and clean and washed.
Maneesha: How did you feel he was being a channel?
Prabhu Praveeta: For one thing, Santosh consciously brought in Osho in certain moments in a very nice way. Santosh wasn′t there, he literally wasn′t there except to love everybody and to understand everybody at each moment. At one moment we all found ourselves seeing something in front of the picture of Osho that was in the room. But these are externals. The real thing is that he seemed in many of the things he said, to give a practical reality to things we had already read or I had heard from Osho. And in his own self he definitely puts love into practice because he was just a selfless person watching everybody, not saying anything but just being there at the right moment.
Maneesha: Can you talk a little about the ashram, the people you′ve met here?
Prabhu Praveeta: Well, one has this extraordinary feeling that there are people from absolutely everywhere and of every kind. Thanks to the fact that I know a number of languages, I did make contact with Italians in one way, with one or two Spaniards, some French people and naturally, English and Americans. And each one is so totally different! What has struck me in quite a few people I′ve known, is the change, the development and the opening up. I′ve seen so many now, and it seems to me that nobody remains unchanged very long. In a very short time changes begin to happen. That′s what Osho promises and it really is true.
Maneesha: How do you feel it is that Osho is able to appeal to so many diverse people?
Prabhu Praveeta: Well, he must be using his intelligence in the service of people. There are enlightened
beings who are just there and who radiate, but don′t communicate. It must be a combination of his own powerful radiation and his capacity to
use mental play.
I knew Krishnamurti but I didn′t get on with him; I found him rather harsh. The others I′ve known were just flowering love and some
of them were more reserved and quiet and you felt their radiance, but there wasn′t this communication at all.
Maneesha: Do you feel a sense of kinship with people here?
Prabhu Praveeta: I feel that the whole atmosphere is very powerful and one feels a sense of kinship. In
the Sufi dancing, when one moves from one person to another you notice very much the people who are afraid and won′t look in your eyes, but
mostly there is great joy in passing from eyes to eyes. The majority of people are more or less open and joyous; There′s a real chord of
love that goes through everyone. The waking of, and giving expression to, love and naturalness and nakedness and all these things is very nice. I
really like it... I think that′s wonderful.
Another thing that struck me here is the children, except if they actually get hurt, you hardly hear them. They seem to be like happy little
spirits around the place. Something very, very calm must enter them through the presence of Osho. I′ve often been struck by that; they seem
to be so easy and so happy on the whole.
Maneesha: Looking back over the two months you′ve been here, what do you feel has happened for you?
Prabhu Praveeta: First, coming across the negative side of myself and being much more clearly aware of
it and practising that awareness continually. The most positive experience has been hypnotherapy which really wakened up an awful lot. I felt the
negative first and the positive afterwards, and now I feel just wonderful.
I had this beautiful Darshan yesterday; It sort of completely fulfilled me. And Osho said I should come and live in the ashram. I′m getting
ready to do that but I′m not quite ready because I still have some work in my mind.
Maneesha: But you feel ultimately to become part of the community?
Prabhu Praveeta: I think so, yes.
Maneesha: Will you talk about your experience at Darshan?
Prabhu Praveeta: It′s very nice to hear his own voice and not to hear him through the microphone; that always does something to a person, to hear his own voice is lovely, and of course to be near him. At Darshan he is setting out his fishing net, so to speak, and he′s in his utmost love and gentleness, whereas in the discourses he is on a different beam. But every Darshan has been a joy. It is a great joy to listen to all that he says for others because it′s so profound and you see how he meets the needs of each one. And then there′s that thing he has said to me.
Maneesha: This is a tricky one: can you talk about your feelings for Osho? Do you feel a love relationship or...?
Prabhu Praveeta: Oh, it is absolutely a love relationship - I have no doubts about that. It′s a continuation of my love relationship with Inayat Khan. I don′t see a difference between them, nor do I see a difference between him and any of the other great founders of religion; they are one voice. And the fact that he speaks so beautifully on all; that is what fascinates me, and that is what he has in common with Inayat Khan. Whatever he′s talking on, suddenly nothing else matters; that′s the only thing that matters to him! (Warm laughter) I find that delightful.
Maneesha: Yes, it′s a kind of childlike quality, isn′t it? A child becomes totally engrossed in something and the rest of the world doesn′t exist.
Prabhu Praveeta: Yes, yes. Suddenly he′s Jesus or a Zen Master or...
I think I can approach the reality and the emptiness and the space through the personality of Osho, and that′s my line: thinking of him and
his presence.
Maneesha: What are your fantasies about what is really happening around Osho?
Prabhu Praveeta: He is always saying - and quite rightly, it seems to me - that religious movements are dead things, and so one wonders what′s the point? As far as I can see, he has this sense of urgency and is sending messages and calling in everybody and putting them all into Orange and so on, so others see it. There is a kind of urgency to bring people to near enlightenment so that they can influence the world in a different way. But what will happen after he′s gone, one does wonder. He himself does say always that religion is only valid when the master is there.
Maneesha: Do you anticipate there being any difficulty in being a sannyasin in Italy: being in Orange, wearing a mala?
Prabhu Praveeta: No, I couldn′t care less! I go my own way. People can laugh at me if they want to; I don′t mind! I mean, this is the only thing that Osho asks us to do; how could I refuse it? Personally I wouldn′t have chosen to wear external signs because having been a Sufi all my life, I consider religion as something very deep inside, but I respect his wishes and there it is.
Maneesha: It′s lovely that he′s been speaking on Sufism while you′ve been here.
Prabhu Praveeta: Yes! I thought the first discourse was the best that he′s ever given. It was powerful and gathered together in his way. I mean, the greatest orator couldn′t have invented, with all his efforts, such a work of art as that first discourse. I felt again my old Masters speaking because it′s absolutely the same fountain springing up.
(Interview with Prabhu Praveeta, 21 June 1977 - The Further Shore, a Darshan Diary)